Comments on: Facebook - the “Hotel California” of Social Networks http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/ A continuing work in progress Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:27:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7-bleeding By: links for 2008-02-14 « Derivadow.com http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-47980 links for 2008-02-14 « Derivadow.com Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:21:07 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-47980 [...] Facebook - the “Hotel California” of Social Networks [hitherto.net] To opt out of any friend-related activity you need to delete those friendships. 375 mouse-clicks to remove 125 nodes on my “social graph”, plus more to dismiss the zombie crap, leave groups and close things down. Just the thought of it gives my brain R (tags: facebook socialsoftware usability socialnetworks) [...] [...] Facebook - the “Hotel California” of Social Networks [hitherto.net] To opt out of any friend-related activity you need to delete those friendships. 375 mouse-clicks to remove 125 nodes on my “social graph”, plus more to dismiss the zombie crap, leave groups and close things down. Just the thought of it gives my brain R (tags: facebook socialsoftware usability socialnetworks) [...]

]]> By: Paul Mison http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-43075 Paul Mison Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:32:23 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-43075 I can't spell Alan Burlison's name right. Oops. I can’t spell Alan Burlison’s name right. Oops.

]]> By: Paul Mison http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-43073 Paul Mison Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:28:27 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-43073 In the wake of the Scoble Facebook nonsense, I've belated found out that Alan Burlinson, a Perl/Sun hacker who you may recall from a YAPC or otherwise, has complained about the inability to delete his account to the upholders of the Data Protection Act, and has even got as far as getting mainstream (well, Channel 4) coverage: http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/science_technology/facebook%20data%20protection%20row/1060467 ps pls blog moar kthnx In the wake of the Scoble Facebook nonsense, I’ve belated found out that Alan Burlinson, a Perl/Sun hacker who you may recall from a YAPC or otherwise, has complained about the inability to delete his account to the upholders of the Data Protection Act, and has even got as far as getting mainstream (well, Channel 4) coverage:

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/science_technology/facebook%20data%20protection%20row/1060467

ps pls blog moar kthnx

]]> By: hitherto http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-36204 hitherto Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:34:00 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-36204 deb, what I find interesting here is that you're basically describing the advertising "model" which product review sites (including local listings like Yahoo! Local or Yelp) and comparison shopping sites have tried to embrace, but they have an opposite problem... ...usually, the set of reviews is from people I don't know, whose opinions I can't therefore trust, and possibly don't care about. At best, 100 bad reviews for a product/establishment allows me to decide that it's probably bad, but that personal connection just doesn't exist. If Facebook are smart, they'll find the middle path between their current "tsunami of irrelevant spam" and applied, specific reviews, and finally build something that's scalably, personally useful. I've seen little evidence that they "get" this yet, though, and since Madison Avenue seems so damn excited about Facebook's SocialSpam right now, it's going to be very hard to turn down the money while the buzz is there, in favour of building a better product. It can be done... I suspect, sadly, that it won't (but then, I'm always a Big Cynic who should be taken with a pinch of salt) deb, what I find interesting here is that you’re basically describing the advertising “model” which product review sites (including local listings like Yahoo! Local or Yelp) and comparison shopping sites have tried to embrace, but they have an opposite problem…

…usually, the set of reviews is from people I don’t know, whose opinions I can’t therefore trust, and possibly don’t care about. At best, 100 bad reviews for a product/establishment allows me to decide that it’s probably bad, but that personal connection just doesn’t exist.

If Facebook are smart, they’ll find the middle path between their current “tsunami of irrelevant spam” and applied, specific reviews, and finally build something that’s scalably, personally useful.

I’ve seen little evidence that they “get” this yet, though, and since Madison Avenue seems so damn excited about Facebook’s SocialSpam right now, it’s going to be very hard to turn down the money while the buzz is there, in favour of building a better product.

It can be done… I suspect, sadly, that it won’t (but then, I’m always a Big Cynic who should be taken with a pinch of salt)

]]> By: deb schultz http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-36200 deb schultz Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:58:07 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-36200 and - ugh lousy typos in above comment...;) and - ugh lousy typos in above comment…;)

]]> By: deb schultz http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-36199 deb schultz Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:56:30 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-36199 Great convo - the issue is that we dont have the semantic language for the nature of these relationships - just as web pages are not webpages - friends on facebook presupposes an intimacy that may or may not be there. I like serendipity of finding stuff through friends actions - the problem is there is just SO much noise out there - vampires zombies etc. IAs for advertising sutff- the thing is - it just aint gonna work as thye discussed it - replacing network superbowl ad with ALL of my contacts at FB now spamming me with hundreds of mini superbowl ads is just noice and uses and old media model. It you provide me info on a product when I am receptive to buy it and when I am in the market and have gestured interest and then tell me which of my 3 closest friends [based on behavior and interaction] use it - that is HELPFUL. Make me smarter about me not just noisier! Of course the above scenario means that I still need to provide the FB entity with all this info - which is icky at the moment because they are not clear who is their primary customer - me or the advertiser. How would you guys have felt if they had launched their intentions to do this to all their members first and then given u s the ability to turn it OFF from the get go till [or if] they proved value? Great convo - the issue is that we dont have the semantic language for the nature of these relationships - just as web pages are not webpages - friends on facebook presupposes an intimacy that may or may not be there. I like serendipity of finding stuff through friends actions - the problem is there is just SO much noise out there - vampires zombies etc. IAs for advertising sutff- the thing is - it just aint gonna work as thye discussed it - replacing network superbowl ad with ALL of my contacts at FB now spamming me with hundreds of mini superbowl ads is just noice and uses and old media model. It you provide me info on a product when I am receptive to buy it and when I am in the market and have gestured interest and then tell me which of my 3 closest friends [based on behavior and interaction] use it - that is HELPFUL.

Make me smarter about me not just noisier! Of course the above scenario means that I still need to provide the FB entity with all this info - which is icky at the moment because they are not clear who is their primary customer - me or the advertiser.

How would you guys have felt if they had launched their intentions to do this to all their members first and then given u s the ability to turn it OFF from the get go till [or if] they proved value?

]]> By: Maymay http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-35250 Maymay Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:53:23 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-35250 Simon, Here you are! Just tried to reply to your facebook message and was trying to figure out why it wasn't working. This blog has made that somewhat clearer. So glad I've found you again, what's your email address? Hope you're well and life is good, maymay xx Simon, Here you are! Just tried to reply to your facebook message and was trying to figure out why it wasn’t working. This blog has made that somewhat clearer. So glad I’ve found you again, what’s your email address? Hope you’re well and life is good, maymay xx

]]> By: Tom Carden http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-34524 Tom Carden Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:23:26 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-34524 I'm absolutely aware of the value of that information to marketers. I'm just increasingly reluctant to give information to a site or interact with it in certain ways if it's doesn't improve *my* experience of that site. Sure, my interactions on Flickr or LinkedIn or wherever feed into a large dataset which is valuable in and of itself, but much time is spent deriving value from that data that other end users and I can appreciate too. I don't see that happening on Facebook (yet?) with the super-detailed stuff that they ask for and so I find it creepy. You say "Honestly, I think Facebook is way more interested in assisting those folks than they are in the intelligence agencies." - I agree (but I don't think that marketers are any better than spies, so I'm happy to continue to keep blurring the distinction). What's more I think Facebook is way more interested in assisting those folks than they are in providing a better experience to their users. That, I hope, will be their downfall. I’m absolutely aware of the value of that information to marketers. I’m just increasingly reluctant to give information to a site or interact with it in certain ways if it’s doesn’t improve *my* experience of that site. Sure, my interactions on Flickr or LinkedIn or wherever feed into a large dataset which is valuable in and of itself, but much time is spent deriving value from that data that other end users and I can appreciate too. I don’t see that happening on Facebook (yet?) with the super-detailed stuff that they ask for and so I find it creepy.

You say “Honestly, I think Facebook is way more interested in assisting those folks than they are in the intelligence agencies.” - I agree (but I don’t think that marketers are any better than spies, so I’m happy to continue to keep blurring the distinction). What’s more I think Facebook is way more interested in assisting those folks than they are in providing a better experience to their users. That, I hope, will be their downfall.

]]> By: Michal Migurski http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-34424 Michal Migurski Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:51:17 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-34424 I'm not overly concerned about social graph standardization. I am an active user of a few social sites, and there's not a lot of overlap among the different users I'm connected to on each. Ffffound! is hyperparticular about designed images, Twitter is all about people I'm actually friends with, WeEndure is for tracking my bike mileage and rising through the ranks of the MeFi group cycling challenge, and that's pretty much it. 765, that's funny - I didn't mean you, but thanks! The birthday thing strangely came up in a totally other conversation. I'll still read your site and f-f-f-find your images. ;) I did end up deleting my FB account today, though I put none of the care into it that you did, hitherto. I found that they don't want you to leave, though, and have an answer for just about any reason you might care to give for "deactivating" (not "deleting") your account: http://mike.teczno.com/notes/facebook-deactivation.html I’m not overly concerned about social graph standardization. I am an active user of a few social sites, and there’s not a lot of overlap among the different users I’m connected to on each. Ffffound! is hyperparticular about designed images, Twitter is all about people I’m actually friends with, WeEndure is for tracking my bike mileage and rising through the ranks of the MeFi group cycling challenge, and that’s pretty much it.

765, that’s funny - I didn’t mean you, but thanks! The birthday thing strangely came up in a totally other conversation. I’ll still read your site and f-f-f-find your images. ;)

I did end up deleting my FB account today, though I put none of the care into it that you did, hitherto. I found that they don’t want you to leave, though, and have an answer for just about any reason you might care to give for “deactivating” (not “deleting”) your account: http://mike.teczno.com/notes/facebook-deactivation.html

]]> By: sevensixfive http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-34397 sevensixfive Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:29:37 +0000 http://hitherto.net/2007/10/18/facebook-the-hotel-california-of-social-networks/#comment-34397 Ha, it's funny to come across this. Sorry Michal, I just thought it was cool that we had the same birthday; you had left a couple of good comments on my blog and it seemed like a good way to say 'hello', didn't mean to bug you out! [disclaimer: I am not a wacko] It does raise a lot of interesting questions, though, right? Personal/professional boundaries and linkages ... and this is the second time this week I've read about the hell that is attempting to quit facebook: another online friend(?) who joined the site for (sociology/technology) reasearch purposes tried and failed to pull the plug: <a href="http://oceanpark.livejournal.com/104153.html" rel="nofollow">So, you want to delete your Facebook profile... (Part 1)</a> Ha, it’s funny to come across this. Sorry Michal, I just thought it was cool that we had the same birthday; you had left a couple of good comments on my blog and it seemed like a good way to say ‘hello’, didn’t mean to bug you out!

[disclaimer: I am not a wacko]

It does raise a lot of interesting questions, though, right? Personal/professional boundaries and linkages … and this is the second time this week I’ve read about the hell that is attempting to quit facebook: another online friend(?) who joined the site for (sociology/technology) reasearch purposes tried and failed to pull the plug: So, you want to delete your Facebook profile… (Part 1)

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